Chatham-Kent council will be putting the safety of local residents at risk if it approves a plan to
merge fire and EMS services, a spokesman for the paramedics said Monday.
Mike Stinson, a paramedic with 13 years of local experience, said, “You don’t have to look much further than recent history in Ontario to see that a blended EMS – fire model has not worked.”
Chatham-Kent Fire and Paramedic Chief Ken Stuebing presented council last month with a plan to combine the two services.
Council will be examining the issue again June 13.
Stinson said since ambulance services were downloaded from the province to local municipalities in 1999 there hasn’t been a successful blending of the two services.
“At that time, the Owen Sound fire department took over EMS and ultimately it failed in 2004 and the EMS went back to being its own entity.
“Quality of patient care will suffer,” he said. “They may be very good firefighters but medicine isn’t their highest priority.”
Ryan Dolby, a representative of the healthcare sector of the Service Employees International Union, (SEIU) said although firefighters do receive some medical training, their skills aren’t on par with paramedics.
“To suggest they can just get re-certified and take care of patients, I would be really concerned – to suggest we can just merge overnight.”
An online petition supporting the retention of a separate EMS service has 1,580 signees as of Monday.
Stinson said a 2013 independent study in Toronto looked for efficiencies in combining the two services.
“They came back with a 350 page document, they interviewed stakeholders and managers and came back and did not recommend any kind of amalgamation.”
Stinson said there has been no contact between the fire department and front-line EMS or its representative regarding the amalgamation.
“We have questions about job loss,” he said. “I’ve been here 13 years, we have others who have been here a lot longer. I love what I do. I chose EMS and they (fire department personnel) chose fire.”
He said the 48 full-time and 40 part time paramedics require annual certification from their base hospital.
“We have an amazing amount of checks and balances. Our regional base hospital currently has no relationship with the Fire Department. In fact, the base hospital has expressed grave concerns in letters over a fire medic model and the risk it may cause to patients in Chatham-Kent.”
That program, which proposed increased medical responsibilities for firefighters was criticized on many fronts including Unifor, the SEIU, the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) and the Canadian Union of Public Employees, (CUPE), the Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs and Ontario Base Hospitals.
Stuebing said many issues raised by paramedics aren’t valid.
“There is no suggestion anywhere that we would send anything less than fully qualified personnel on any call,” he said. “This is not related to the fire-medic idea.”
“Our goal is to follow the Ambulance Act, apply for an ambulance license and have employees with skill sets so that on one day the person will be fully qualified to be on an ambulance and the next day they could be on a fire truck.”
He said the model is being used in Western Canada and the United States. He said the system didn’t work in Owen Sound because of a change in political leadership that didn’t support the initiative.
He said under the model he has suggested, there would be more full-time jobs and less part time jobs although exact numbers aren’t known.
“Council has asked us to come back with more information and some of that will impact costs and possibly personnel so until council makes a decision, I can’t give specifics because I don’t have them.”
“We’ve simply looked at the best way to deliver service,” he said. “It’s part of our job and we will follow council’s direction on the matter.”
Is Cathleen Wynne involved in this, because she's ruining Canadian's lives and now Chatham is risking people's lives? I can't believe the Chatham council would do this to their citizens and destroy people's careers and put more pressure on the firefighters, like they don't have enough to deal with. I have a hard time believing they would do this on their own people. Not the smartest idea. Need some people in office who have better and more intuitive ideas. You might regret this action if it's one of your family members who is trouble. Might want to put a little more thought into this decision, especially when it's been proven not to work elsewhere.
There is a city meeting June 13th ALL should attend!!
Anybody ever hire an electrician to do your plumbing? Same thing.
Are you kidding me?…Paramedics concerns aren't valid? Where should I start….so fire has a clause in their contract where no one can be laid off for 5 years….This guy wants to take over our EMS service cut half their jobs, and pay them significantly less. THATS where his cuts will be made!!!! Not to his sevice where they may work 6-8 shifts a month and even get paid full time wages for not working at all!!!! ( aka a floater) Our paramedics work very hard in our community and are highly skilled members of the medical profession…..their training consist of over 2500-3000 hours and must be re-certified every year and working for a base hospital to be called a "Paramedic"….This is ridiculous to even consider such a merge!!!! To degrade our paramedics and tell the public their concerns aren't valid by our so called fire chief, is a disservice in itself….Let sleeping dogs lie…let fire be fire and medics be medics…We all know where the real cuts need to be made!!!!!
She is not. This has been in the making for several years.
The fire medic model in Winnipeg also has seen a skyrocketing fire budget since their amalgamation. It's a bargaining chip to increase fire budgets and not the quality of emergency health care.
Jim Brennan, a long-time Winnipeg paramedic, witnessed the devastation first-hand when that city's politicians directed its EMS and fire departments to amalgamate in 1998.
So he urged whoever ends up at the helm of Toronto on Oct. 25 to think long and hard before proceeding with such a merger.
"Good luck!" Brennan said wryly, over the phone from Manitoba recently. "You've got a long road ahead."
He said the decision to merge fire and EMS was meant to save the city money, shorten response times and create a more efficient service. But it instead touched off a decade-long nightmare, the effects of which are still being felt.
Brennan was named chief of the newly formed Winnipeg Fire and Paramedic Service (WFPS) in 2007 and charged with fixing the amalgamated mess.
Initially, the plan called for the formation of one group of first-responders, under one union, who would be cross-trained as fire fighters and as paramedics.
"They would be able to move between fire trucks and ambulances depending on the need at any particular moment, during the course of a shift," Brennan said.
After nine years of trying, he said that original model had to be abandoned and new one drafted.
"There was so much discussion and so many different aspects addressed, but really, nine years later we were no closer to the goal than when we started," Brennan said. "In fact, in some regards, we were behind."
So, basically have staff work full-time while essentially doing two jobs part-time? How is a person expected to remain competent if he always swaps between two jobs? Maintaining competence, especially in the medical field is more than just proving yourself on training and testing day. It's like doing half electrical and half plumbing work throughout the year. You may be good at both, but never be a master at one.
Is everyone going to get the same wage as the firemen.? That will cost a fortune..no money savings there………
What is this ? A pilot for a TV show? It will not work in real life!! CRAZY IDEA!!!!!!!!!!
A proposal was put forth by the Firefighter Union, the OPFFA, calling on the MOHLTC to approve the issuance of symptom relief medications by firefighters. The issue has been met with resistance from not only the Paramedic Industry, but also the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, (AMO).
Paramedic unions and associations alike are united in opposing this reckless promotion by the OPFFA, in what appears to be a manouver to secure their own employment at the expense of not only the taxpayers and paramedics, but more importantly, the patients.
#SendParamedics https://www.facebook.com/SendParamedics
http://1019.cupe.ca/firemedic-issue
IIt would seem to a roll of the dice at the taxpayers expense. The key driver behind virtually all fire department efforts to "embrace" the EMS mission is an attempt to hide the real facts by blending medical calls into the statistical data base. The Fire service should be commended for aggressively promoting fire prevention through all formats to the point that there are few fires, the consequence of the however is a real need for them to completely overhaul the very concept of a fire service. Jack of all trades and master of none is not however a good deal for the taxpayer and undoubtably placees lives at risk , pre-hopsital care has become, and becomes increasingly more complex every year, you want a plumber call one, need an electrician? DOn't call a plumber.
Don't fall for Kenny's antics….
If anyone's wages should be cut it's the fire fighter's. Paramedic's work so much harder then their counter part's.
There is no need to train paramedics on fire procedures because they are constantly swamped – missed lunches, staff/ambulance shortages etc, at least over here in Waterloo region. Firefighters may have more downtime than medics, so they could be trying to find some way to keep them busy in a more effective manner, which there is some merit to. However, the idea that you could just replace paramedics with additional training for firefighters is a bad one. The education involved is hugely different.
Maybe you could train Firefighters some additional techniques that they could use to assist medics, but they already do the brunt work of cpr or lift assists if possible while the paramedics do the higher level work like determining and administering drug dosages. The paramedics I know appreciate this help. Keep in mind these drugs that could kill people if the dosages were wrong.
The services are separate for a reason – specialization. Economic theory supports a specialized services model from an educative perspective – having separate services results in higher quality Firefighters and higher quality paramedics, and hopefully Chatham council recognizes the importance of that. If anything, it would make sense to amalgamate certain aspects of overhead, like dispatch or payroll, if they are not already.
Final thought – to maintain the same quality of care, we should maintain the same quality of education, which would not be a quick on the job course. More like a two year program. Or at least a year , full time in school, given that there may be some overlap between the education firefighters and paramedics receive. Maybe. Anyways. Youre talking at least a year for each firefighter. Who would cover the cost ? Better be them, paying to go back to school, and not funded on public dollars. We already have people who paid their own money to get those degrees – existing medics.
I'm not sure what the education requirements are for firefighters – may be cheaper or easier to teach paramedics how to fight fires. Except they are probably already working in a job where they frequently miss their lunch breaks on a twelve hour shift because they are too busy. Again, maybe that's just here in Waterloo.
Chief Stuebing is in a desperate race to justify his huge fire budget..Period. Many municipalities have been scrutinizing this section of their budgets and asking whether they are getting much in return. Fire Departments throughout North America are facing the same thing, so they are trying very hard to move into EMS in order to justify or even expand their budgets. I would challenge all residents affected by this to get a copy of the fire department budgets and see how many of their fire fighters are making over 100 grand a year. If this wrong headed initiative goes through, they will very quickly come to your council demanding a much larger budget for medical equipment, training, hiring, and all the other goodies. This money would likely be spent on more fire equipment, but that is a discussion for another day.
Fire based EMS sytems have historically not worked. In the rare instances they have, the cost is usually 3 to 4 times as much. The City of Seattle is often held up as the model of a fire based EMS system, but they do not tell you the costs, which are staggering. The list of cities that tried a fire – EMS merger and failed is huge. Detroit fell apart completely when the fire department took over, New York response times dropped dramatically, Winnipeg is trying to figure out how to get out of it. Historically, it does not work well at all.
I would also be willing to bet the fire department will want a parallel private ambulance service for transport to hospital or to go and help your Grandmother up when she fell at two in the morning. Fire personell do not like non emergency calls at all, they like the lights and sirens, emergency exciting calls only. I would strongly think the boots on the ground, the actual Fire Fighters, do not want this at all. They would like to stay doing what they do best, and which they are very good at. This initiative is driven solely by the political wings of the Fire Chiefs associations, the IAFF, and the numerous other political bodies within Fire Departments everywhere. They even have a handbook published for internal use on how to sell the idea and spin things for the various City Councils they approach.
I would strongly urge the citizens of Chatham – Kent look long and hard at this proposal. It is deeply flawed, coming from selfish reasons, for ulterior motives. Medical responses need medical people, not folks in bunker gear in a 5 ton truck. You already have this, although you could use some more of them. It would make far more sense, especially budget wise, to make some expenditures on improved Ambulance services.