Fire and paramedic chief Ken Stuebing said he’s “100 per cent comfortable” in the information supplied to Chatham-Kent Council regarding the future of emergency and fire service in the community.
He said council has been given “everything they need” from a financial and legislative perspective to determine whether the municipality will continue to contract out ambulance service, make it a stand alone service within the municipality or blend the two services.
“I will deliver whatever level of service council wants us to provide,” he said. “I’m fine with whatever council’s direction is.”
The matter will go back to council for a decision June 27. Stuebing said he has not formally endorsed any of the three options.
“This is not a fire chief making a recommendation on fire taking on EMS, this is a fire and paramedic chief telling council there are challenges in the fire and EMS delivery service and providing options,” Stuebing noted.
He said the options have been developed over a three-year period with the aim of providing the best service for the best value, in that priority.
He said figures sent to council estimate contracting the service or building a separate service within the municipality would cost between $1 million and $2.5 million more per year depending on service levels.
Stuebing’s report to council indicates a savings of between $800,000 and $1.4 million annually if a blended service is adopted.
He said integrating the service would mean no additional management staff and minimal administration costs.
Stuebing said the blended service would result in more full-time permanent jobs, cost saving in administration and provide a greater flexibility for paramedics.
He said there are currently 48 full-time and 30 to 40 part-time paramedics.
Under the blended service model, the municipality would hire 65 full-time “firefighter-paramedics. There are more full-time jobs and more secure jobs,” he said.
Since Medavie EMS employs the current paramedics, they would have to apply for jobs with the municipality if council approved a blended option.
“Clearly we would be going to look for people who are paramedics,” he said. “Ideally candidates would have both skill sets but we would be looking for people who are willing and able to take training.”
Stuebing said the fire service doesn’t have the ability to train firefighters to be paramedics but “we do have the capacity to train paramedics as firefighters; we do it all the time.”
He said there is no validity to concerns that the skill sets are so different they can’t be done by one person.
“Half of our 65 firefighters are trained in both areas and half of that number are actively doing paramedic work at present. It’s happening now.”
Stuebing spent several years working in emergency services before becoming a firefighter.
“I came up through EMS,” he said. “I was a primary care, an advanced care and a critical care flight paramedic.”
He has served with the Canadian Medical Association involved with accreditation of educational institutions and was a paramedic program manager at a base hospital in Winnipeg.
“It’s not that a firefighter can’t do paramedic work, its not that a paramedic can’t do firefighter work. They may choose not to do one or the other. If that’s the case this would not be the place for them to work in the future if council approved a blended system.”
Stuebing said paramedics handle more than 20,000 calls a year and log 128,000 hours of work.
“We expect the number of calls to increase,” he said. “There is stress on the system with paramedics spending a lot of time on code 8 calls instead of being able to decompress after a difficult call.”
Code 8 is the term used when an ambulance has to be moved from one location to another to cover for another unit.
Currently there are two full-time ambulances stationed in Chatham and one each in Wallaceburg, Thamesville, Ridgetown and Tilbury as well as a first response unit in Blenheim.
“By having more resources, we should be able to reduce the number of times we have to pull units from one area or another to cover. If we can decrease ambulances sitting by the side of the road somewhere, it’s better for everyone.”
Stuebing said criticism that his department hasn’t spoken with paramedics is unfounded.
“People have asked why we haven’t had discussions with paramedics,” he said. “That just puts everyone in a difficult position. They aren’t municipal employees and at the end of the day we need to maintain our relationship with the contractor especially if council decides to stay with a contracted service.
The grand issue here is that this model has been explored in previous studies, specifically POMAX 2013 in Toronto. It indicated that these models were not cost effective, caused animosity and further labour strife.
Moreover, the service would still need to purchase, stock and run ambulances to transport patients and paramedics to hospital (the ultimate definitive treatment). Creating dual role fire fighter paramedics is an astronomical waste of tax payer money and it has been proven with data repeatedly.
I also wonder what quality of service the people of CK will be receiving when Fire Fighters, who completed paramedic training just to be fire fighters, are made to "work on the box", often seen as one of the least desirable jobs in the Fire Service.
I wonder what kind of patient care the people of CK will recieve when fire fighter /paramedics arrive on scene in the middle of their 24 hour shift? The risks associated with delivering medical treatment during a 24 hour shift are astronomically increased, as a recent article in the National Post (I believe) indicated.
Moreover, how eager will the regional Base Hospital be to certify these fire fighter paramedics with their 24 hour shifts, shifts that exhaust and increae the risk of medication errors? The purpose of the Base Hospital is to ensure public safety when paramedics deliver treatment.
And what about the paramedics that can't re apply to get their jobs back? Those who may not have the best eye sight? Or are colourblind? Not necessarily because they're physically unfit but because they were dealt a raw hand? Those extremely amazing paramedics who are now refused the chance to serve their community because of shirt sightedness?
I sincerely hope CK Council has considered these issues before proceeding.
Well, paramedics are paid less but now your going to hire 65 full time which is more than you have now and they will be paid fire wages. You say your going to save money? You need to go back to school because you must have failed your math class; this will not save money and will cost more! And no code 8's, well what are you going to do when there is no ambulance have you fire truck with fire/medics sit and waite for an ambulance from another community so that they can transport the patient to the hospital? Do you move your firefighters to an ambulance instead? Who now responds if there is a fire? And this also is not going to cost money; REALLY, every system that has tried to combine the two services have cost greatly more money. Man I'm glad that I do not live in your community.
By his logic, security guards could take on police duties and heir heavy presence at multiple locations wpild reduce response times. Many of them took the police foundations course after all.
Look, what this man is promoting is to have staff work full-time doing two part-time jobs. Medicine is an area where one needs to constantly be exposed and practice in order to maintain competency. Since medics don't have as much down time as firefighters, training on shift is nearly impossible. Given the nature of emergency calls, it can be some time between certain call types, but if one now works "part-time", it just increases the chances of decreased competency.
Think of electricians. Who would you want to have wire your home…the general contractor that does it once in a while, or the electrician that does it day in and day out?
Same goes for paramedics and firefighters. They both need to focus on their respective tasks in order to be experts within their chosen fields. Unlike some aspects of firefighting, pre-hospital medicine is a whole lot of grey. Chest pain does not necessarily mean heart problem and trouble breathing is not always a lung issue.
Council needs to make an enlightened decision and hopefully they will keep pre-hospital care within the realm of healthcare rather than public safety.
I hope someone on council had the fortitude to contact London, Owen Sound and Toronto to find out why the merger did not work there.
Ive been with CK EMS for 11 years. In order for me to apply for the job Ive already earned I have to become a fireman? Thats like telling a police officer he must become a fireman to be a police officer. Or a plumber must become an electrician in order to be a plumber. Does this not sound rediculous to anyone else? Then why is not as rediculous to hear that in order to be a medic you must be a fireman?
Both fields are specific to their training. My head is full of medical knowledge and training. There is no room for fire information. Nor would my patients want me to be pulled in two directions. Its just not safe.
I believe the issue of "applying" for a job that already exists is not really an issue. To apply for a job means that you don't have that job right now. To be severed or terminated from an existing job means that you would not be applying for it again the very next day. It would be an huge severance payout cost to the tax payer (approx. $2,000,000) for the current employees to be severed. There goes your savings! Under Ontario labour laws both public and private employees are protected by article 69 of the labour relations act. Rather than try to explain it, I will simply post it.
Sale of business
69. (1) In this section,
“business” includes a part or parts thereof; (“entreprise”)
“sells” includes leases, transfers and any other manner of disposition, and “sold” and “sale” have corresponding meanings. (“vend”, “vendu”, “vente”)
Successor employer
(2) Where an employer who is bound by or is a party to a collective agreement with a trade union or council of trade unions sells his, her or its business, the person to whom the business has been sold is, until the Board otherwise declares, bound by the collective agreement as if the person had been a party thereto and, where an employer sells his, her or its business while an application for certification or termination of bargaining rights to which the employer is a party is before the Board, the person to whom the business has been sold is, until the Board otherwise declares, the employer for the purposes of the application as if the person were named as the employer in the application.
What this says in plain english is: Medavie owns the business now, if the Municipality of Chatham Kent takes it over or it is "transfered" to them (a sale of business) then they assume the existing contract union and employees. This is regardless of whether it is option B or C or any other option that could be proposed!! There has to be a continuance of service in this case… it is an emergency service!! Unless there is some sort of strange and magical ability to stop 911 from being called for a few hours while the staff is replaced and the new staff is oriented. Maybe the plan is to change the employees at midnight on Dec. 31. So basically at exactly 11:59:59 on Dec. 31. 2016 they will have chase vehicles to take over the care of the paramedics in any of the ambulances on the road?! This is not only preposterous it is illegal under the labour relations act by my understanding. Every other jurisdiction in Ontario (and I mean every one) has abided by the rules of article 69 and upon taking over the ambulance service, all of the employees where then employed by the municipality as if they had been running it all along. So unless there is something that I am missing there would be no "applying" for an existing job and the only alternative to that is to completely terminate an extremely well trained and experienced group of over 100 qualified paramedics and hire all new!!? Well that doesn't seem very good or safe now does it? It also doesn't sound possible under article 69.
I think Stuebing should get a Captains job on the "Love Boat". Apparently, he has done everything else. I hope CK council talks to the MOHLTC about response times. The reason EMS has so many Code 8's is because they are covering for other units that are on calls. The problem is the same everywhere. EMS is understaffed and under funded and the FD is over staffed and over funded. If a Paramedic is tied up on a fire call, how is that person going to respond to calls for Emergency Medical service to the community??. Code 8's??? I can just see the law suits coming if council approves blending Fire and EMS. As Russell Peters puts it in his routine…"Somebody 'gonna get hurt". No laughing matter to those who will not recieve timely and efficient service which is currently being provided by Emergency Medical Care Professionals in a pre-hospital environment. Sorry Stuebing, you can't hold a fire hose in one hand and a stethescope in the other. It has be proven time and time again.
There are some players missing in this comtroversy and I'm curious where they are and were they stand on this issue, where are the Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs and why are they not speeking out about this and why have they not made a presentaion to this Council, or if they have why is it not being reported, Where is the Local Base Hospital Group and why have they not spoken out on this issus when they know full well that this will do nothing more then lead to the watering down of a EMS system that has come a long way since the 60's, Where is the Union that represents this group, Where are the ER Doctors and Nurses and what is their stand on this. This nonsence is nothing more then Smoke and Mirrors an the part of this Fire Cheif. This system has been proven wrong and more then enough occasions and in mor then enough Commuities, This is going to cost more, it has no other outcome then that. Where the Hell is everybody.
Another way for fire to hire more firefighter who get paid way more,cost more in pensions, and in process put highly trainer paramedic who have spent years obtaining education and their jobs out of work. His figures don't make sense
It is quite clear that the public is not in favour of this merger and it would be smart if the council let the paramedics be paramedics and the firemen be firemen. No sexual bias intended. They are separate areas of training and expertise and each should be allowed their place in the system. Stop trying to fix things that are not broken. Focus on the nurses in our local hospitals who have 10-12 patients each within their care and cannot keep up with the demands of them. Politicians and money hungry business people have turned the public service areas of our country into a shameful joke.